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George Lagergren wrote:

- 0104-11
- Brons@anat.fgg.eur.nl wrote: 01-03-01 10:00
- Br- Where did I say that the very term 'alternative medicine' holds the
- Br- claim? And just look at the internet, bookstores and other popular
- Br- sources of info and you'll see that for any ailment in western society
- Br- there's an alternative diagnosis (even for diseases that may not even
- Br- exsist) and an equally alternative therapy.

- Br- Medical science does make mistakes, nobody said (or should say) that
- Br- it doesn't. Medical science doesn't have all the answers, nad again
- Br- nobody says or should say that it does. And the mere fact that you take
- Br- the alternative route doesn't make you anti-orthodox (did I say that?),
- Br- but the content of much of the postings here are.

- Br- And I disagree that complentary medicine would be a better name,
- Br- quackery would be a better name.

- Br- Doctors make mistakes, that's why you were nearly crippled. I know
- Br- this happens, it has happened to people I know too. But that doesn't
- Br- mean that regular medicine is bad, it is just not perfect. But nothing
- Br- is.

- But alt health folks prefer using natural health methods FIRST in
- trying to resolve a health issue. If natural medicine can help
- resolve a health problem, why not use it FIRST?

In many cases illness can be resolved by medicine provided the illness
is detected early on. When people go to alternative medicine they run a
great risk of being mis-diagnosed and treatment would then start too
late..

- End of message 03 Jan 01 10:05
- ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]

--
Robert Bronsing

'In the beginning, the file was without form, and void;
and emptiness was upon the face of the bits.
And the Fingers of the Author moved upon the face of the keyboard.
And the Author said: 'Let there be words', and there were words'

from the Linux System Administrators Guide

"robert bronsing" <brons@anat.fgg.eur.nl- wrote in news

- George Lagergren wrote:

- - 0104-11
- - Brons@anat.fgg.eur.nl wrote: 01-03-01 10:00
- - Br- Where did I say that the very term 'alternative medicine' holds the
- - Br- claim? And just look at the internet, bookstores and other popular
- - Br- sources of info and you'll see that for any ailment in western
society
- - Br- there's an alternative diagnosis (even for diseases that may not
even
- - Br- exsist) and an equally alternative therapy.

- - Br- Medical science does make mistakes, nobody said (or should say) that
- - Br- it doesn't. Medical science doesn't have all the answers, nad again
- - Br- nobody says or should say that it does. And the mere fact that you
take
- - Br- the alternative route doesn't make you anti-orthodox (did I say
that?),
- - Br- but the content of much of the postings here are.

- - Br- And I disagree that complentary medicine would be a better name,
- - Br- quackery would be a better name.

- - Br- Doctors make mistakes, that's why you were nearly crippled. I know
- - Br- this happens, it has happened to people I know too. But that doesn't
- - Br- mean that regular medicine is bad, it is just not perfect. But
nothing
- - Br- is.

- - But alt health folks prefer using natural health methods FIRST in
- - trying to resolve a health issue. If natural medicine can help
- - resolve a health problem, why not use it FIRST?

- In many cases illness can be resolved by medicine provided the illness
- is detected early on. When people go to alternative medicine they run a
- great risk of being mis-diagnosed and treatment would then start too
- late..

That, to me, is the best reason on earth for allopathic physicians to start
practicing holistic medicine. They can stand behind their diagnosis, the
"patient" can feel secure, or relatively so, and the root cause of the
illness will be treated, not just the resulting symptoms.

Lisa (new to this group -- hi y'all!)

And when people go to the doctor, they run a great chance of being
misdiagnosed, and given a dangerous drug or treatment to boot.
robert bronsing <brons@anat.fgg.eur.nl- wrote in news

- George Lagergren wrote:

- - Br- And I disagree that complentary medicine would be a better name,
- - Br- quackery would be a better name.

- - But alt health folks prefer using natural health methods FIRST in
- - trying to resolve a health issue. If natural medicine can help
- - resolve a health problem, why not use it FIRST?

- - End of message 03 Jan 01 10:05
- - ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]

- --
- Robert Bronsing

- 'In the beginning, the file was without form, and void;
- and emptiness was upon the face of the bits.
- And the Fingers of the Author moved upon the face of the keyboard.
- And the Author said: 'Let there be words', and there were words'

- from the Linux System Administrators Guide

In article <jih66.1726$Zf.13@newsfeed.slurp.net-,
"Lisa" <nospam.l@theinnersource.com- wrote:

- That, to me, is the best reason on earth for allopathic physicians to
start
- practicing holistic medicine. They can stand behind their diagnosis,
the
- "patient" can feel secure, or relatively so, and the root cause of
the
- illness will be treated, not just the resulting symptoms.

- Lisa (new to this group -- hi y'all!)

Lisa, first of all welcome to the group.

There are a few "cross-over" m.d.'s but I really don't know many
who practice or who would be willing to practice this way.
There are some philosophical issues as to the effectiveness of
certain complementary health modalities but also the problem(s)
of legal liabilities issues of not practicing to the "standard
of care" in the medical community. Problem that are relatively
benign are better suited than serious life-threatening problems.
I can't see a m.d.forsaking a known and proven therapy for
something serious in favor of an questionable alternative method.

I don't personally believe that many alternative modalities
necessarily treat the root cause of disorders and diseases
anymore than certain conv. medicine techniques. It depends on
what the problem is. An example of conv medicine is someone with
type II diabetes obtaining effective control (in many instances)
with dietary changes and increased exercise. Oral meds are used
only if the above doesn't obtain the necessary results.

frank

Sent via Deja.com

<drfran@my-deja.com- wrote in news
- Lisa, first of all welcome to the group.

- There are a few "cross-over" m.d.'s but I really don't know many
- who practice or who would be willing to practice this way.
- There are some philosophical issues as to the effectiveness of
- certain complementary health modalities but also the problem(s)
- of legal liabilities issues of not practicing to the "standard
- of care" in the medical community. Problem that are relatively
- benign are better suited than serious life-threatening problems.
- I can't see a m.d.forsaking a known and proven therapy for
- something serious in favor of an questionable alternative method.

- I don't personally believe that many alternative modalities
- necessarily treat the root cause of disorders and diseases
- anymore than certain conv. medicine techniques. It depends on
- what the problem is. An example of conv medicine is someone with
- type II diabetes obtaining effective control (in many instances)
- with dietary changes and increased exercise. Oral meds are used
- only if the above doesn't obtain the necessary results.

- frank

Thanks for the welcome. ;-)

Actually, I've found a couple doctors in my area who do practice alternative
medicine in addition to the stuff they learned in med school. My
gynecologist is also a homeopath, and he gives you a choice right up front.
Do you want straight MD stuff, or do you want to explore homeopathy? I chose
him specifically BECAUSE he's a homeopath and I've had amazing results.

My GP is also interested in alt.med, and will make suggestions about ideas
to look into, or will let me bounce ideas off of him. He's one of those docs
who allows you to be intelligent in your own health care and values your
input. He's not so much into herbs and stuff like that as much as the
mind/body connection. His wife is a DO and she is much better known than he
is for her interest in alt.med.

I guess my point is that they are slowly starting to pop in the strangest
places (the midwest, not the west coast!). As long as I have the option, I
won't go to a doc who doesn't lend credence to natural medicine.

Lisa

In article <Ewo66.2056$Zf.14@newsfeed.slurp.net-,
"Lisa" <nospam.l@theinnersource.com- wrote:

- <drfran@my-deja.com- wrote in news

- - Lisa, first of all welcome to the group.
- Thanks for the welcome. ;-)

- Actually, I've found a couple doctors in my area who do practice
alternative
- medicine in addition to the stuff they learned in med school. My
- gynecologist is also a homeopath, and he gives you a choice right up
front.
- Do you want straight MD stuff, or do you want to explore homeopathy?
I chose
- him specifically BECAUSE he's a homeopath and I've had amazing
results.

- My GP is also interested in alt.med, and will make suggestions about
ideas
- to look into, or will let me bounce ideas off of him. He's one of
those docs
- who allows you to be intelligent in your own health care and values
your
- input. He's not so much into herbs and stuff like that as much as the
- mind/body connection. His wife is a DO and she is much better known
than he
- is for her interest in alt.med.

- I guess my point is that they are slowly starting to pop in the
strangest
- places (the midwest, not the west coast!). As long as I have the
option, I
- won't go to a doc who doesn't lend credence to natural medicine.

- Lisa

Lisa,it's great that you've found a couple of docs that you're
comfortable with. Sometimes though an individual is limited
to choices becauseof their health insurance, HMO carrier.
It may or may not become more widespread; I don't have a
firm handle in my mind whether this will become more widespread.

But maybe you or someone else can tell me what the heck is meant
by "natural medicine"? Is this opposed to "unnatural medicine"?
Or is it a term used to denote treatment w/o surgery and
drugs? That can't be totally accurate either because herbs and
supplements act as medications so they are classified as drugs
as well. The term natural medicine bothers me for some reason.

frank

Sent via Deja.com

"Rich" <kala@hawaii.rr.com- wrote in news

- He also likely recognizes that there are many people out there who
- have somatic complaints but no recognizable organic pathology that may
- respond to a belief in a homeopathic remedy and achieve positive
- results through the placebo response.

Ah, I see. You're a skeptic. ;-) That's cool, you're entitled to your
opinion. I have reason to believe that it's not a placebo response. But
thanks for your politely toned post. So many people would just be quick to
call names when they disagree.

Lisa

<drfran@my-deja.com- wrote in news
- Lisa,it's great that you've found a couple of docs that you're
- comfortable with. Sometimes though an individual is limited
- to choices becauseof their health insurance, HMO carrier.
- It may or may not become more widespread; I don't have a
- firm handle in my mind whether this will become more widespread.

Good point. When I was under an HMO I had to pay out of pocket for any
alternative stuff (so I got very little done). Now I have a much better plan
that pays for a huge range of things, but pays a larger percentage for docs
in their "group." I find that some doctors just don't say anything on the
bill whether they recommended an alternative treatment or not. An office
visit is an office visit. That will be $45, please.

A chiropractor I was seeing who also sold nutritional supplements could not
put those on the insurance claims. They would only pay for chiropractic
work. My homeopath/gyno does state that it's homeopathic work and my
insurance company pays a portion, with a larger percentage from me than if
it were straight MD stuff.

- But maybe you or someone else can tell me what the heck is meant
- by "natural medicine"? Is this opposed to "unnatural medicine"?
- Or is it a term used to denote treatment w/o surgery and
- drugs? That can't be totally accurate either because herbs and
- supplements act as medications so they are classified as drugs
- as well. The term natural medicine bothers me for some reason.

I only called it that because that's the title of this thread. I don't
really know what to call it either. What I'm looking for is a way to bring
my body to peak efficiency and health with a minimum of invasiveness and/or
side effects from drugs. If that can be had through traditional allopathic
medicine, beatiful. But if acupuncture or Reiki is what fixes things, I'm
open to that as well.

Lisa

-From: "Lisa" nospam.l@theinnersource.com
-Date: 1/8/01 5:54 AM US Eastern Standard Time
-Message-id: <jih66.1726$Zf.13@newsfeed.slurp.net-

Welcome Lisa!

Jan

-"robert bronsing" <brons@anat.fgg.eur.nl- wrote in news
-

-- George Lagergren wrote:

-- - 0104-11
-- - Brons@anat.fgg.eur.nl wrote: 01-03-01 10:00
-- - Br- Where did I say that the very term 'alternative medicine' holds the
-- - Br- claim? And just look at the internet, bookstores and other popular
-- - Br- sources of info and you'll see that for any ailment in western
-society
-- - Br- there's an alternative diagnosis (even for diseases that may not
-even
-- - Br- exsist) and an equally alternative therapy.

-- - Br- Medical science does make mistakes, nobody said (or should say) that
-- - Br- it doesn't. Medical science doesn't have all the answers, nad again
-- - Br- nobody says or should say that it does. And the mere fact that you
-take
-- - Br- the alternative route doesn't make you anti-orthodox (did I say
-that?),
-- - Br- but the content of much of the postings here are.

-- - Br- And I disagree that complentary medicine would be a better name,
-- - Br- quackery would be a better name.

-- - Br- Doctors make mistakes, that's why you were nearly crippled. I know
-- - Br- this happens, it has happened to people I know too. But that doesn't
-- - Br- mean that regular medicine is bad, it is just not perfect. But
-nothing
-- - Br- is.

-- - But alt health folks prefer using natural health methods FIRST in
-- - trying to resolve a health issue. If natural medicine can help
-- - resolve a health problem, why not use it FIRST?

-- In many cases illness can be resolved by medicine provided the illness
-- is detected early on. When people go to alternative medicine they run a
-- great risk of being mis-diagnosed and treatment would then start too
-- late..

-That, to me, is the best reason on earth for allopathic physicians to start
-practicing holistic medicine. They can stand behind their diagnosis, the
-"patient" can feel secure, or relatively so, and the root cause of the
-illness will be treated, not just the resulting symptoms.

-Lisa (new to this group -- hi y'all!)

-From: robert bronsing brons@anat.fgg.eur.nl
-Date: 1/8/01 5:36 AM US Eastern Standard Time
-Message-id: <3A59981D.BD6C8@anat.fgg.eur.nl-

-George Lagergren wrote:

-- 0104-11
-- Brons@anat.fgg.eur.nl wrote: 01-03-01 10:00
-- Br- Where did I say that the very term 'alternative medicine' holds the
-- Br- claim? And just look at the internet, bookstores and other popular
-- Br- sources of info and you'll see that for any ailment in western society
-- Br- there's an alternative diagnosis (even for diseases that may not even
-- Br- exsist) and an equally alternative therapy.

-- Br- Medical science does make mistakes, nobody said (or should say) that
-- Br- it doesn't. Medical science doesn't have all the answers, nad again
-- Br- nobody says or should say that it does. And the mere fact that you take
-- Br- the alternative route doesn't make you anti-orthodox (did I say that?),
-- Br- but the content of much of the postings here are.

-- Br- And I disagree that complentary medicine would be a better name,
-- Br- quackery would be a better name.

-- Br- Doctors make mistakes, that's why you were nearly crippled. I know
-- Br- this happens, it has happened to people I know too. But that doesn't
-- Br- mean that regular medicine is bad, it is just not perfect. But nothing
-- Br- is.

-- But alt health folks prefer using natural health methods FIRST in
-- trying to resolve a health issue. If natural medicine can help
-- resolve a health problem, why not use it FIRST?

-In many cases illness can be resolved by medicine provided the illness
-is detected early on. When people go to alternative medicine they run a
-great risk of being mis-diagnosed and treatment would then start too
-late..

And many times they get NO diagnoses because it isn't in the recipe book. Many
people turn to alternative because conv. has no answers. The great risk is
going from one closed minded MD to another. All the while one's health is
deteriorating. If one has an unanswered health problem, get thee to an
alternative to a practitioner .and CHECK THE TEETH!!

Jan

-- End of message 03 Jan 01 10:05
-- ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]

---
-Robert Bronsing

-'In the beginning, the file was without form, and void;
-and emptiness was upon the face of the bits.
-And the Fingers of the Author moved upon the face of the keyboard.
-And the Author said: 'Let there be words', and there were words'

-from the Linux System Administrators Guide

-From: drfran@my-deja.com
-Date: 1/8/01 12:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time
-Message-id: <93ct0q$s7@nnrp1.deja.com-

-In article <jih66.1726$Zf.13@newsfeed.slurp.net-,
- "Lisa" <nospam.l@theinnersource.com- wrote:

-- That, to me, is the best reason on earth for allopathic physicians to
-start
-- practicing holistic medicine. They can stand behind their diagnosis,
-the
-- "patient" can feel secure, or relatively so, and the root cause of
-the
-- illness will be treated, not just the resulting symptoms.

-- Lisa (new to this group -- hi y'all!)

-Lisa, first of all welcome to the group.

-There are a few "cross-over" m.d.'s but I really don't know many
-who practice or who would be willing to practice this way.
-There are some philosophical issues as to the effectiveness of
-certain complementary health modalities but also the problem(s)
-of legal liabilities issues of not practicing to the "standard
-of care" in the medical community. Problem that are relatively
-benign are better suited than serious life-threatening problems.
-I can't see a m.d.forsaking a known and proven therapy for
-something serious in favor of an questionable alternative method.

-I don't personally believe that many alternative modalities
-necessarily treat the root cause of disorders and diseases
-anymore than certain conv. medicine techniques.

You are free to believe that, it certainly isn't what I have experienced.
What's your reason for believing that?

It depends on

-what the problem is. An example of conv medicine is someone with
-type II diabetes obtaining effective control (in many instances)
-with dietary changes and increased exercise. Oral meds are used
-only if the above doesn't obtain the necessary results.

-frank

I disagree. Oral medication is handed out far too freely.

Jan

-Sent via Deja.com
-